Secular Sankofa Podcast: Black Humanist Voices from the Association of Black Humanists

Welcome to Secular Sankofa - Reclaiming African Identity Through Secular Humanism

• Humanise Live & Association of Black Humanists • Season 1 • Episode 1

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"We believe in people, not prophets, we believe in freedom, not fear, and we believe in integrity, not doctrine" - Audrey Simmons, Podcast Host

The Secular Sankofa podcast launches as the first-ever platform for Black humanists to reconnect with African identity and heritage through a secular lens. The hosts introduce the Association of Black Humanists, its mission, and vision for creating a space where Black people can explore humanism without religious dogma.

• Opening libation ceremony acknowledges African heritage and collective humanity
• Audrey explains the meaning of "Sankofa" - looking back to reclaim history from a humanist perspective
• Challenge to the colonial narrative that religion is intrinsically African while atheism is Western
• Lola shares ABH's mission of reclaiming Black humanity and advocating for social justice
• Clive describes his journey from devout Catholicism to humanism through scientific inquiry
• Discussion of the political dimension of Black humanism as a path to liberation
• Pan-Africanism as a framework for global Black solidarity while respecting cultural differences
• Preview of future episodes featuring personal stories, Black feminism, LGBTQ+ experiences, and African history
• Invitation to listeners to engage with ABH through social media and in-person meetups

Join us on social media @ABHumanists and attend our meetups including our Pan-African book club. We are the authors of our destiny - we do not wait for miracles, we create change.


Thanks for listening to the Secular Sankofa Podcast, produced by the Association of Black Humanists (ABH). If you enjoy the show, please follow, rate, and review — it helps more people discover Black humanist voices.

Stay connected with us:

Learn more about our work and community at abhumanists.org

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🎶 Music: Icy by Jeff Kaale

Audrey Simmons:

Welcome to the very first podcast of Association of Black Humanists. This podcast is called the Secular Sankofa. My name is Audrey Simmons and I'll be your host today, and I'm also joined by my two colleagues, lola Tanubu and Clive O'Day. Hi Hi. As Association of Black Humanists, we'd like to open up this session with a libation. For those of you who don't know, a libation is usually done with some kind of liquid, usually alcohol, and it's an acknowledgement, a way to come together collectively. It is usually done in a call and response, but as we're on a podcast, I will be saying everything. So, if you would like to, once I've said Ubuntu, the response would be because of you, we are here. I invite you to say that, wherever you are, I pour libation and acknowledgement of the great migration out of Africa. Ubuntu, because of you, we are here. I pour libation in acknowledgement of our forefathers, our ancestors. Their DNA runs through our bodies, their knowledge and their trauma is still within us today. Umbuntu, because of you, we are here. I pour libation for all the sentient life and acknowledge that they too are the caretakers of this land. I acknowledge that they give us life and balance the universe to make it complete. Because of you, we are here. I pour libation for the motherland, africa, and all that she has been through. Her land is rich and her people are strong. They have endured much strife, but we are still here, fighting, growing, living Because of you. We are here. I pour libation in celebration of all that we have been, all that we are and all that we will be in the future. Umbuntu, because of of you, we are here in this space.

Audrey Simmons:

We'll have some real conversations about race, about black people, but they'll all be from a godless view. And before we continue, I just wanted to mention something about our name. We are called the secular Sankofa, and most of you may know that Sankofa is a Ghanaian word from the Akan language and its depiction within an Adinkra is a bird that is reaching back. So you'll see it with its head back and it's looking back. And for us, that represents us as Black people who are in the West or who have been through colonialism. And we have to be reaching back for our history. We have to be rewriting what has been written about us and written on our behalf, that collective history that is no longer about us in the way that it should be, and we wanted to take that idea of looking back, using our history, but not in that spiritual way, not calling on our ancestors, but in a more practical way, in a way that organizations that are there supporting Black people in a way that we tell our stories and in the way that we interact with each other.

Audrey Simmons:

So the idea of a secular Sankofa is us, as humanists, looking back, using that pan-African idea of looking back at our history, but from the view of humanists, of African humanists, of Black humanists. And we're a growing movement of Black people, of African people, african Caribbean people, and we are daring to ask questions and we're rejecting the religious dogma that surrounds us, surrounds us and we are opting to be telling the truth. As we see it, we are humanist, we believe in people, not prophets, we believe in freedom, not fear, and we believe in integrity, not doctrine. So let me bring in my two co-hosts and my co-host today. First of all, lola, let me bring you into this conversation. And who are we and why do we need an association of Black humanists?

Lola Tinubu:

The association of Black humanists. We started out as London Black Hittist and we started because we were wondering why, when we will attend humanist and secular events and we will see so few black people, we felt that things were not adding up. We are tired of being told that religion was our culture. I need to say I remember when I first became an atheist humanist and I would try to explain to people the relationship between Christianity and colonization and slavery and then they would throw it back at me that oh, atheism, humanism, is a Western thing, as if to be superstitious and religious, especially to be Christian and Muslim, is African culture. It has been so embedded in our psychic through colonialism that to be a Christian is African and that if you reject superstition and you become a humanist, you are now being flipped as if you are being another colonial mentality. We believe that Africa is a cradle of reasoning. Therefore, this is one of the reasons that we started London Black Hittites and then we became a social black humanist.

Lola Tinubu:

We are tired of the silence around how religion reinforces racism, patriarchy and oppression, patriarchy and oppression. We are post-colonial and we are very passionate about our desire for progress of Black nations and communities. We are aware about how religion is suppressing the desire, because we see the connection between religion and politics and how African nations are being run, functioning system that will give health, education and everything decent to Black people. It's not that Black people are passing through. Being alive is a journey and the goodness will come to Black people in afterlife. We are challenging that. We are coming together as a community. Sometimes I hear that we are lost when we leave religion. We are not lost. We are not lost. We are awake. Our mission is about more than just living religion. It's about reclaiming our humanity, our voice, our future. We are committed to social justice and civil rights, anti-discrimination of all kinds, progress and dignity for black people globally, pan-african unity raising and critical thinking. We are going to do it ourselves, not some angels, not some prophets and not some God that is not hearing African voices. Thank you.

Audrey Simmons:

Lola, for that real good summation of who we are as AVH and Clive. I want to bring you into the conversation now and just tell us a bit about your story, where you are coming from and how you ended up here at ABH yes, it's.

Clive Arude:

Thanks, audrey, for inviting me to talk now we where did I? How did I get to be involved? It's really what happened was I was a Christian, actually a Roman Catholic, and I was very active as a Roman Catholic was what we call a Eucharistic minister. So I used to help the priest out when we were doing the Mass. And if there was somebody in the congregation who couldn't show up because they're not enough or whatever, their leg is hurting them, whatever then I'd go and visit them and do my little ceremony for them and end up by giving them the Eucharist, the body and the blood of Christ. So I was very involved and committed.

Clive Arude:

Then one day some children asked me what is science? So I knew they were quite smart kids. So I couldn't just say, oh, science is biology or physics or chemistry. I had to tell them something a bit more substantial. So I went to Google and typed it in and out came all these links telling you what science means academically it's something which is repeatable, it's testable, verifiable, it's falsifiable and so on.

Clive Arude:

So once I'd understood what all those terms meant, then there were a lot of other links, which links you to the science of cosmology, for example. So where did the planet and the stars and the moons and where did all that come from? So it turns out that there's a natural explanation and you don't need a god or gods for any of it. And then where did all the life forms come from? Again, there's a natural explanation. We don't know exactly how life started, but we know that once it had started, then Charles Darwin was able to explain by means evolution, by means of natural selection, how all the life forms, all the different life forms, got it. How did they evolve? How did they evolve? How did they appear? So there were natural answers for so many things and at first I was very reluctant to let go of the God thing. I was saying to myself maybe, okay, there might be natural selection, but maybe that's how God wanted to do it. But the idea of a natural process is that you don't need a God, it's just not required.

Clive Arude:

So I got to a stage where I had to decide do I want to keep on believing the religious narrative, where there's no evidence, or do I believe in the natural way of looking at things, where there's lots and lots of evidence? And the evidence is piling up more and more every day? So I really had to give up religion at that stage and become somebody who believes in more natural things. However, when that first happened, I didn't know anybody else who was an atheist or humanist or anything like that. I thought I was maybe the first one or the only one, and I went on Google again and looking for people who believed in a natural way of looking at life, and of course I came up with quite a number of different groups, one of which was the British Humanist Association, which is now called Humanist UK.

Clive Arude:

So I joined them. But they only do maybe two or three events a year, so that wasn't much use. So then I found out that there's a Central London Humanist who do an event pretty much once a week. So that was much more what I was looking for and I joined them as well. So I joined the Abusive Humanist Association. Then I joined Central London Humanist and I thought that's it, I'm all done. But then I kept noticing that there were only a very few black people, and so I couldn't figure it out, because London is just. I think it must be 30, 40% black people. Then I met Lola and another couple of friends, david and I also met Jody, and we came together to form London Black Atheists and later on we changed our name to Association of Black Humanists, and that is more or less explains how I got here, so how I came to be here today.

Audrey Simmons:

Thank you for that, clive, and I think what you've just explained is this that becoming an unbeliever and changing that world is a journey. There's no epiphany, there's no road to damascus. For us, it's a kind of long slog of unpicking the world that we've grown up in and disengaging and that disengagement. I think we did some research with one of the universities I think it was clh, was that right? Not CLH University College, king's College and from that research we found out that it takes about 10 years for someone to kind of start to think about not being an atheist or start to question, and to that long road of actually saying I'm now an atheist, I'm now no longer a believer. So there's no, this isn't a sudden decision, this isn't something that we take lightly, it's a long process and I think your depiction of that and explaining that to us has been really clear to say that this isn't just something that we just suddenly do. You know what I mean. We analyze, we look at, we weigh up the odds, we do all of that and then we come to a conclusion and I think that just shows that we can't just switch things on and off and this is real indoctrination that we're dealing with and to unpack it takes a long time. So thank you for that, clive.

Audrey Simmons:

Lola, I want to come back to you now. We're talking about being a Black atheist, we're talking about all of those things. They're quite emotional, but isn't there a more political? We talked about racism, we talked about oppression, we talked about all of those things. Can you just expand on that a little bit for us?

Lola Tinubu:

Absolutely, audrey, but there's something I want to mention before I talk about the political side of humanism. It's following up on what Clive has said. One of the things that we will be doing with this podcast is having guests who will share their personal stories of their journeys out of religion. What reactions do they face from the family and community? It's not an easy thing. So for people who are going through that, this is a podcast for you. For us, humanism is also very political. It's about Black liberation from mental, cultural and colonial chains. We cannot talk about Black people and humanism without talking about racism, about injustice and how religion has often been used to justify slavery, to justify homophobia and the oppression of women. We want this podcast, and this podcast will challenge these legacies and offer new ways to think, to feel and to build.

Audrey Simmons:

Thank you for that, and I think that is something that I'm going to be looking forward to in taking part in all of this and bringing those stories and bringing those ideas and bringing those thoughts together for us. And I think I suppose we can't talk about us as Black people, as African people, as humanists and all of those things, without bringing in that kind of pan-African vision, because we're Africans, however you slice it, however we cut it. Wherever you are in the world, we know that that origin is where we're from. We have to look at things from that global perspective. We can't work in isolation and we can't talk about Black people and humanism without kind of thinking about the Pan-Africanism and how it brings solidarity, healing, that collective progress for Black people everywhere, because it's the one thing that binds us, it's the one thing that brings us together wherever you are. And we know that we have differences. I'm a Caribbean woman and we have our Nigerian colleagues, our Ghanaian, our South African, we have those from Ethiopia and we all have cultural differences and we don't have to negate any of those things. Those things are quite, they're apparent. That's what it is. But the African-ness and that one thread and, I have to say it, our melanin brings us together because, wherever we go, that's the one thing that people see us for.

Audrey Simmons:

And when we're talking about the politics, we need to look at what's been happening recently within the Labour Party. When people bring up that kind of idea, there's a battle that we have in this kind of conversation about how much we can talk about ourselves in that context, and I think those are the kinds of things that we want to tease out and bring to the fore so we can have this conversation about ourselves, and some of it may be controversial, some of it we might feel that it isn't what we should be talking about, and there were other things, but it's about education and it's about the self-determination that we need to have and it's about rebuilding ourselves after colonization has tried to dismantle us and disenfranchise us and make us separate and disenfranchise us and make us separate. So we have to believe in the future of Africa and her people, and this depends on critical thinking, science and human rights, and we need to. You know, the main thing as humanists, we need to be free from dogma as our main priority. So, loli, we're talking about some of the things that we've got to look forward to.

Audrey Simmons:

We're talking about interviews. Is there anything else? What is that? Bring us in, bring us up to date. What are we going to be talking about?

Lola Tinubu:

Yeah, we've talked a lot about bigger stuff. We've talked about Pan-Africanism, we've talked about colonialism. These are really big things, but we are also a grassroots group. We deal with individuals as well. When you leave religion in a black home, what do individuals go through? This podcast will be inviting guests to talk about living religion as a black person. What is your experience? Clive, one of the founders, is always saying that when he left religion, he lost the church that had been a big part of him, but then he gained the entire universe.

Lola Tinubu:

We'll be inviting guests that will talk about the trauma, because a lot of us do face trauma leaving religion. So the trauma is from our immediate family members, from our friends and from the community. We will be inviting guests that will be talking about what is it to be a minority within the humanist community? Sometimes there are specific things that sometimes it seems that we are repeating ourselves and like maybe it's getting boring. Sometimes some people believe that, oh, we've passed this, we don't need to. Everything is fine now. Everything is fine in the society. Just get on with it. It's not really there for us. So we we are the only one that can talk about ourselves. Sometimes we don't want to talk about certain things within the larger humanist community, or maybe they are not interested in that all the time. They want to talk about other things. We want to talk about other things as well, but we have to deal with our issues. We cannot leave the issues that we are facing.

Lola Tinubu:

We will also be inviting guests to talk about Black feminism. Is it a thing, is it not just feminism? You know we're all women. Why do we need Black feminism? We will also talk about being LGBT and being black Religion. I don't know any religion that is tolerant of LGBT community, although we have a friend who has a church and he says being gay means God adores you. G-a-y. We will be, hopefully. We will invite him to come and talk to us, talk to you about that and then talk to other LGBT people and what they are facing with religion. We will also be talking about religion and politics in Africa and diaspora. I think I've said this a few times. Also, very importantly, we want to explore the true African history. We did not come from the Garden of Eden. We are not black Israelites. We have Africans that are saying that they are Israelites. We come from the Garden of Eden. No, we will be talking about our true African story. We will also be talking about the courage to doubt and the power of asking questions. Thank, you.

Audrey Simmons:

I'm looking forward to this. Clive, I know you are a science guy. You are a space guy. Are we going to be talking about that? What else can we look forward to in this space, and who is this space for?

Clive Arude:

I'm glad you mentioned the words space and science, because those are things I've come to love. I'm not saying you can't learn about space and science when you're religious, but it's a completely different ballgame when you don't look for an explanation which is always the same. God did it. You know you want to find out what's really going on. I remember when I first found out that, for example, all the planets, the stars, the moons, the or everything that you can see, is only four percent of what is out there. So what is the other 96 percent?

Clive Arude:

It turns out there's something we can't see, dark energy, and also we can't feel or touch dark matter. 96 so we're only four percent. I couldn't believe it. My, it blew my mind and. But science is like that you find something which grips you and it rocks you to your very foundation and you can't really help but get excited about it. So when you lose the church, you haven't really lost much because you're going to gain the whole universe and science will help you to get there. So we hopefully will be having people coming to talk to us about that and also we'll be having people talk to us about all sorts of other wonderful things. I am going to hand it back over to Audrey, and if there's anything else you'd like to find out about, I'll be glad to help.

Audrey Simmons:

Oh, I think we. This is our first podcast, so I think what we're trying to do here is just set the ground. We're trying to give people a little taste of who we are, what we are aiming to do, and also we want them to share in what we're doing. It's not going to just be us sitting here talking to them. We actually want people who are listening, who hear what we're going to say, or hear what we say and say actually, I want to. I want to engage with you guys. I want to know what you're talking about. I've got a question for you, so do feel free to engage with us.

Audrey Simmons:

We're on social media who isn't these days? Instagram, facebook, twitter, association of Black Humanists, but we will be updating our social media, so do keep a lookout for that. But also, we meet face to face. We are on meetups, so, please, we'd love to see you at our meetups. We have a Pan-African book club, so, again, look for information about the books that we are reading and we want to be a part of all of this conversation that is taking place.

Audrey Simmons:

So we are humanist. We don't believe in the supernatural, but we believe in life we believe in. We've got to get up every day, we've got to put on our shoes, we've got to go to work, we've got to pay our bills. So we're a part of life, we're a part of the world, and so we have to have those discussions and we have to be a part of the everyday. So those are the things that we will be facing or dealing with and discussing and being a part of. I'm going to hand over to Lona and Clive for the last word and then I'm going to do our affirmation to close this session. So do join us in that. So, lona, any last words from you before we get to the affirmation?

Lola Tinubu:

I think I'm just going to say we are going to be bold and we ask you to do the same. We are going to try our best to be free and we're inviting you to do the same. And we are going to stay human and we invite you to do the same.

Audrey Simmons:

Clive, any last words from you?

Clive Arude:

Yes, just encouraging people to join us. Don't listen to what people have told you about humanists or atheists. We don't have horns growing out of our heads. It's a wonderful thing growing out of our heads with just it's a wonderful thing. Join us because you want to find out more about what's out there. Join us because you're questioning religion and if you'd like some help to navigate your way through and to understand hot things a little bit, then this is why we're here. This is a space for you. And, of course, if you're a humanist or you're passionate about race and equality issues, pan-africanism, environmental issues and Black nations and the history of them and world justice issues, join us. Join us. Us enjoy it if you want to enjoy it or be part of it, and join us physically or online anytime you can. So I'm gonna.

Audrey Simmons:

I'll leave it there thank you so much, clive. Thank you so much, lola. This has been a real blast for me. I've really enjoyed it and I'm excited for what we're going to do in the next shows. Do keep in touch and let us know.

Audrey Simmons:

Going to start our affirmation, I have to say that we are African people and I think an affirmation of who we are, a confirmation of who we are, should be the way that we end all our interactions. So we're going to end our first podcast with our affirmation. Allow me to start we are the authors of our destiny. We do not wait for miracles. We create change. We reject all ideas that diminish our humanity, whether they come from racism, oppression. Whether they come from racism, oppression or religion.

Audrey Simmons:

Our history does not limit us. It empowers us. We carry the wisdom of our ancestors and the fire of the future. We are capable, we are creative, we are courageous, we are rebuilding. We are creative, we are rebuilding, we are rising. Africa and her people will thrive, not by faith but by action. We move forward by unity and reason and purpose. As Black humanists, we believe in ourselves and the power of our minds, hands and solidarity to shape a just, free and dignified future. This is our affirmation we have been Association of Black Humanists. Thank you for joining us on our first podcast. I thank Lola and Clive for being on this journey with me and we will see you next time.

Clive Arude:

Thank you, Audrey and Lola, and see you all next time. Thank you.

Humanise Live:

Secular Sankofa is produced by Humanized Life for the Association of Black Humanists. If you enjoy the show, please leave us a rating and a review. It helps more people discover us For more from the Association of Black Humanists. Find us on Meetup or at LBHumanists on all social media platforms. Humanized Life creates world-class podcasts, videos and events for purpose-led individuals and organizations. If you're ready to start your podcast, visit humanizelive to learn more.

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Audrey Simmons

Host
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Clive Aruede

Co-host
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Lola Tinubu

Co-host

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